Your Questions

So I was reading the paper yesterday and I saw an article with this headline, "A House Divided: How a 40-Nighters Fan Wound Up Raising an Eagles Fan." And this is actually in one of the Philadelphia newspapers. It's the story of Mac Hill. Isn't he cute? Cute little kid? Don't let that fool you. He's a 10-year-old son of a die-hard 49ers fan, who's getting—this kid is getting tons of press in Philadelphia right now. He flew cross-country with his parents to go to the game today. His parents in their Niner gear, he is a die-hard Eagles fan, and he's become sort of a mascot in Philly. Apparently what happened was he did a school report on Philadelphia and he sent a letter to the newspaper in Philadelphia. One of the reporters sent him a care package full of Eagles gear, hats and shirts and pins and all kinds of stuff, and he became a convert. And so he's been featured on Philly television and Philly newspaper. It's all over.

Because he's from the Bay Area, the family lives in Martinez and his family are longtime Niners season ticket holders. I love this. His dad half-jokingly says, "We are a house divided. There's a lot of tension right now." Well, I bring this up because we need to pray for that child. No, I bring this up because a lot of people right now are feeling that sentence, only not just about something just fun like a game, about real relational tension between family members and church members and friends. And I know this because you told me. Welcome to one another our January series on relationships. My name is Renanda. They're one of the pastors here each week in this series. We've been looking at some of the many one another passages in the Bible.

And this morning what we're going to do is something we have never done before in my nearly 30 years of ministry here at Twin Lakes Church. We're going to be answering your relationship questions that you sent me over the course of this series with a panel of experts. But what surprised me about almost every question, I did this years ago at Mount Herman where I was speaking at a conference there and I asked people to submit their relationship questions and all the questions were relatively lightweight. Like, you know, what TV show do you recommend families watch together? That sort of thing. They were not lightweight this time. It was heavy. Almost every single question was some form of we are a house divided. There is a lot of tension right now. They were almost all about estrangement in some way.

And as I said, we're going to have a panel address these questions in just a minute. But first I want to tell you that this series now that it's concluding is not your only avenue to getting relationship help. We've got a great marriage weekend coming up. We've got Friday night and then all day Saturday, Friday night with John and Nancy Orp Berg and then all day Saturday with Chuck Starnes, fantastic content. And this Wednesday night, one another Wednesday, Chuck Starnes with relationship tips. Dinner starts at 5:15 and the class starts at 6:30.

Now before the panel comes up, I just want to say a few words to frame this because one thing is clear to me: relationships are hard. I got that message loud and clear from your questions, but I want to tell you don't give up because God created you for relationships and not just to solve your loneliness. Our faith is best grown in really—in fact, I would say our faith can really only be completely grown in relationships. Do you remember what the Bible says are the signs of a mature Christian? They're not the things that usually spring to my mind. The Bible doesn't say, oh yeah, a mature Christian. That's somebody who knows the most Bible verses, who has perfect church attendance, who always, you know, does the right thing in terms of some sort of religious rules.

The Bible says here's—no, here's those things are important. But here's the true sign of a mature believer. They demonstrate the fruit of the spirit, which is what? Love. Say these words out loud with me: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Notice anything about those things? They're all about character qualities exhibited in relationship. And the only way to grow in those things is in relationships. In fact, only by being in relationships that are sometimes going to test your love, test your joy, test your peace and patience and so on. That is the only way you can grow to be a truly Christ-like, spiritually mature person.

And this is one of the biggest concerns I have as a pastor and I talk about this a lot here is the growing isolation of our world because more and more we can live without being in community at all. You could shop online. You can attend church online. You can work remotely and pretty soon if you—that's all you do, pretty soon the only community you'll have is an online community of people who believe every single thing you believe and see the world exactly the same way you see it. And that leads to polarization where you start to view everybody else through a lens of judgment and disgust and distrust, which leads to further isolation, which leads to further polarization, which is what we're seeing in our culture right now and that leads to more and more immaturity because that is not how you grow in these areas.

In fact, that's a recipe for less love, less patience, less kindness, less gentleness, which is exactly what we're seeing in our world. So relationships are hard, but relationships—I mean real face-to-face, difficult, sometimes annoying, taxing relationships are necessary for your growth. And I would say even when it seems like they're not working. In fact, I don't know how much we grow through relationships that are only peaceful and only joyful and only loving. I think it's only through those times in relationships when there is struggle and there are differences and there is conflict that we truly learn to grow in the fruit of the spirit. Even those times that are the most frustrating for you, God is working in your character in those moments. So don't give up because the struggles we're going to be talking about today are the times when you can grow.

So I really want to set this up with that, but I also have a huge warning here. We've talked a lot about relationships in this series. We talk a lot about relationships in church, but I want to warn against something I see happening a lot in Christian circles when it comes to relationships. And listen carefully to this. What I see in a lot of relationships, especially I think among Christians, but others too, is almost an idolizing of relationships where you're putting the idea of marriage or family or your children above even God. And let me explain this. Idolizing relationships happens when a relationship is my main source of approval and attention and value and validation as a human being when we try to squeeze from other people what only God can give us.

That is inevitably going to lead to disappointment and hurt feelings and awkwardness and attempts to control people or to despair. You know, when you're looking from your children or from your spouse or from your friends, the kind of validation that you only need to seek from God because ultimately you can only get it consistently from God. And so the way to break free of relationship idolatry, there's really only one way and it's not to try and try real hard not to idolize relationships, but to develop your relationship with God with full trust. When you realize how much God loves you unconditionally, that he loves you so much that he gives you one and only son to save you and that he continues loving you infinitely and has created you as his masterpiece for good works he's prepared for you before the creation of the world.

When you let all those gospel truths sink in, then you can be in relationships without burdening those relationships. You see what I'm saying? Without constantly seeking approval from relationships, which can only toxify those relationships. But when you keep preaching the gospel to yourself, when you keep reminding yourself that nothing in all creation will be able to separate you from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord, when you keep preaching the gospel to yourself, any relationship advice that's going to last all comes back to that. God loves you. Nothing's ever going to separate you from his love.

So with that overview in mind, and by the way, can I hear an amen on that from your church? With that overview in mind, let's get into the specific questions you asked and I just want to pray. Lord, I just pray that during this time the questions that are answered would be received as wise counsel and that those of us who are here today, whether these questions apply directly to us, they will certainly apply to people that we know. So God, just be in these moments and help us to hear from your spirit through these wise people. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.

All right. Put your hands together. Let's welcome our panel to the stage as they come on up. I am so excited to have with us Lacey Warren. You see Lacey sometimes up here on the worship team. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist. That's what LMFT stands for and also Dr. Fred Wilson here in the middle. Fred is a recently retired recovery's ministry pastor at Santa Cruz Bible with extensive ministry experience. In fact, Fred for many, many years was the senior pastor over in Lascadis and Calvary Church where I grew up. Yes, Fred was my pastor. So blame it all on Fred and then Christi Glaussen also attending this church, a licensed marriage and family therapist at relational resources in town. Let's put your hands together. Let's welcome our panel here today.

Well, but first of all, thank you guys so much for being here. I really appreciate your taking the time. It went so well last night and I'm really looking forward to this morning as well. I do want to say our answers here today are not a substitute for counseling. I asked the panel to keep their answers to like three to five minutes. That's not a substitute for professional help. It's not a substitute for reading your Bible. The answers aren't complete because we need to be brief, of course, and ultimately most of these questions that are asked are not about what's a sin, what's not a sin. These are wisdom issues between you and God and that means there's not necessarily a right or a wrong answer. It's a matter of wisdom and that's why there's books that are wisdom literature in the Bible where you use discernment.

And boy, did we get a lot of questions. We could have done this for a month and not covered all the questions we got, but what we're going to do is cover the most frequently asked questions. All the questions I'll be asking this morning are questions I got multiple times phrased maybe in slightly different ways from different people. So I know these are very common and I'm going to start with one of the most common. I'm going to start with you, Fred, just because you know you're my pastor. So a lot of questions along these lines. My adult child has decided I'm toxic to her family and has cut off our relationship. What is my response to be as a Christian parent who still loves them unconditionally? And similar questions like this. How do I respond to somebody who labels me a gas lighter? That means I'm trying to manipulate them by making them question their own sanity. That's what gas lighting means and anything I say is seen only through this lens.

That's it. I was surprised at how often this came up in the questions sent to me. A lot of estrangement going on in families. It's very common. Yeah. Very common now and if you're in that circumstance, first of all, I'm sorry because it is a very difficult circumstance to be in. I am a parent of adult children, five of them, and I am—I was a child, an adult child of a parent that I was alienated from. And I remember how my dad won me back to him and it really has helped me to know how to parent my children. And also this, before I even knew this was going to be a question, my daughter—we were celebrating her birthday last week. And as we wound it up in the home, she said, "Dad, you didn't prepare me for this." She now is the parent of an adult child. "You didn't tell me how hard this was going to be." It is hard to be the parent of an adult child. There are no simple answers to this, as you said, but let me give you some of my thoughts.

One is that I always look at a relationship where there's difficulty is that there are two sides. Even when I think I'm absolutely right, I have to stop and ask myself what did I do to cause them to feel this way even if I think how they feel is wrong. What did I do to lead into this and what can I—what can I change? What can I understand from that? We've worked a lot in the last 10 years in the ministry that I was leading that did more than just addiction and chemical and that kind of thing but dealt with relational issues. And this is one of the big issues that people face and this is what we found that humility is really, really important in dealing with our children, not to come across as the expert. I'm not the parent anymore. I'm really not. I'm biologically their parent, but right now it's not my responsibility anymore to take care of them. And I need to realize that in my interaction with them so that I don't become this parent criticizing, suggesting, interfering, and so forth in their relationships and to really analyze what I'm doing.

There has been so much that we saw—so much healing take place that we saw from parents who just withdrew emotionally, disconnected, so that they're able to deal with the child without allowing emotions to get involved and then were able to admit what they had done wrong, to ask forgiveness even if you don't understand what you're asking forgiveness for, but to say whatever I have done to interfere or hurt or whatever, I really want to learn that. I want to listen. I'm not going to be talking for a while, but as you will let me into your life, I would like to hear from you and I would like the opportunity to apologize and set things straight. Now it's not always the parent's fault and I'm not suggesting that, and there may be some really issues with that child, but I think that approach is good.

What my dad did for me when he did something that I felt was absolutely unforgivable—you will never—I will never speak to you again. You will never see me again. You will never see your grandchildren again—that went on for a very long time. He would call. I would very quickly end the call. He would call. He would never judge me. He would never push. I got so tired of him loving me that I finally said, "OK, I'll come over for a barbecue," and that opened it up and it also opened up an opportunity for my brother who was equally estranged from him just before his death to be able to meet with him and restore that relationship.

That's a fascinating perspective that you have having been in that relationship as the adult child. That's very interesting. Any follow-up comments, Lacey or Christy? As you were talking just about adult children, what came up for me having adult children myself is just a process of letting go. It's a process. So, you know, allowing ourselves time. It's a new role to play and that letting go is part of that relationship and recognizing that I'm not the expert. I don't need to be the one that gives advice, that they get to make those decisions. And that's a process that just doesn't happen overnight. But the letting go of that. Yeah, that's very important.

Let me go to the next question and Fred, since this was an area of specialty for you, I'll ask you for your response, but then I'd love to hear from other panelists too. This came up so often, I'm sad to say, but what do you do with a loved one who is addicted? And then one question added the qualifier, and rages at you. But I know that that's not uncommon. I mean this was your area. Yeah, and because it is—can we just spend the next services? No, because this is a big issue. I think the thing that helped me is to realize what's happening in the brain of an addicted individual and to realize that there is a huge difference between can't and won't. And I think with addiction we want that person to stop. We just want them to quit. Why won't they? And realize that they can't for that period of time, not to give them an excuse for their misbehavior, but that they can't and then to be available but not to feel that we're the savior of that individual.

They, as Christi said, they're adults. They have an opportunity—well, mostly they're adults—but they have an opportunity to make their own choices and we have to be available but not push them. Let them be who they are. Let them know that we're available and trying to steer them to programs: A.A., Celebrate Recovery. You have a program here, a couple of programs. In fact, let's put that—I think we have a slide that we can put on screen with the details of our programs. These are programs we have here at Twin Lakes Church. We have our recovery program for women on Monday morning. We have an all-comers on Monday night. We have a Thursday night and we've got the men's locker room, which is men dealing with sexual addictions and desiring sexual purity. So there's a lot of opportunity for help here at this church and all over the place.

So I'm sorry to interrupt. I remember the part of the question that I thought was really important is that I feel guilty when I separate and I don't go around them because I can't deal with the raging and so forth. Don't feel guilty about that. That's part of the process of helping them for someone to deal with their addiction. I don't know how many parents, wives, husbands over there called me and said, "Would you call my significant other?" And I would say no, but they can call me. Here's my number because they have to do the work. And if you're trying to help them, if you feel I can't deal with this, separate from it, just physically separate—that breaking that relationship is an act of love, not an act to be filled guilty over.

Thank you, Fred. Lacey, a question for you, and this is one that came up. I had so many questions that were this—the presenting issue might have been different, but the questions boiled down to I have a loved one whose understanding of—and fill in the blank here—the questions we got mentioned religion, politics, sex, marriage, family, gender, and more varies tremendously from my own. How do I navigate this? I feel they view me with anger and then I feel angry at them. I mean we all certainly know friends and family don't see eye to eye with us sometimes on just issues of opinion, maybe like politics, but sometimes on issues that we actually think are sin or are things related to the Bible. So relationship advice please.

Go ahead. Be here for a long time. So this is obviously a huge broad question, but if we boil it down, we're essentially asking how am I supposed to be in a relationship with people that are different from me? Right. And so I think about how this is nothing new from the dawn of time. Human beings have trouble getting along. Whether that's, you know, if we look in scripture, the early church—all the most of the letters to the early church were like Paul saying please learn how to live in unity and peace. Like they had all the cultural challenges and conflicts and all the petty issues and the squabbling and whatever. So this is nothing new.

I think of my own two kids who have passionate disagreements all day long and how this starts. This is so innate, our sense of like my kids incite each other and they exasperate each other and there's some sort of like dark enjoyment of the power that comes when we know how to make someone freak out. And so thinking about that, I thought about this on the way here when I was driving. So if my kids are in the backseat, they can argue all day about what music we're going to listen to, whether it's Blippi or whether, you know, they can do that all day. I'm driving and I'm their parent and my hope and desire for them is that they would learn to love and care for each other. That's maturity, that they would grow into accepting their differences. My expectation is not that they would agree on everything, that they are so separate and beautiful and God loves diversity. His heart is for the nations. He intended it this way. And so who are we fighting with in the backseat? And God is sovereign. He is driving the car.

Right. So I think it all boils down to—I mean there's so many things I wanted to say, but time. The greatest commandment is to love God with our heart, soul, mind, and strength and love our neighbor as ourselves. You know, I think a great passage of scripture for people to read would be Romans 14, which is all about that. In fact, yeah, well Romans 12, Romans 14, and the first half of Romans 15. It's literally about these exact issues. And what's interesting in Romans 14 is Paul talks about things that were considered by people to be absolute scriptural issues: keeping the Sabbath and keeping kosher diets. And he makes it clear that one may be right, the other may be wrong. But what we need to learn to do first of all is to actually be in relationship with one another.

So I'm interested, Fred, Christi, your response to this. Anything you want to add? This was a very common question. So I was just thinking as you were talking, Lacey, that in building relationships with one another, how important it is to listen. So even if I think that I might know the answer or what I think I might know what's best, to be able to just listen and take the time to get to know that person and hear what they have to say. And I think then you can create a dialogue and they're only going to be able to listen if you're invited in. So I think the first step in that is just really listening and hearing what they have to say.

I would say that, you know, a couple of the questions I got too at least were specifically about friends or family that are converting to another religion and not just like another denomination. Another religion that Christians would look at and even say is a cult. So this is like a serious issue, but even there I would say your advice holds true to listen before lecture. Be quick to listen and slow to speak. Fred, any thoughts? I would just quickly say there's only one savior. And if we put ourselves in the position of I've got to save them from this or from this viewpoint, political, religious, whatever, we don't give God a chance. That's very interesting and know that God is working in their lives even if you don't see it. I've seen this many times as a pastor. I'll talk about that later.

So, and just one quick—you bet. I'm human. So I'm working on it too. You know, I mean I'm working on listening. And so as we sit up here as experts, the truth is, you know, I'm doing the same thing in my relationships wanting to listen, wanting to build. So those are—as a human being, it's all skills that we're working on. Christi, I want to direct this question to you. These I got at least three questions related to this. Does the Bible give any guidance when a relationship with a person who has extreme characteristics of narcissistic personality disorder? In this case, it's an older parent. And another similar question: What boundaries should be placed on somebody in the family who says terribly hurtful things? It's also an older parent in this case. What do you say to this person as a reason for the limitation? And what do you say to yourself?

So I'm going to answer this question based on my experience with clients. And so first, what I believe that scriptures tell us is that we are created to walk through life together, not alone. So we as human beings need support. So the person that wrote in this question or others of you that may relate to those relationship dynamics, you need support and that it's a difficult relationship to navigate. So I want you to hear that you need support for that and that you don't have to do it alone. Usually at the end of counseling sessions with people, I often ask, "What's something that you might walk away with from our time together?" Or when you get in your car, what's something that you might think about later? And what I would hope that you would remember is that scripture tells us that we don't need to do it alone.

Yeah, that's—that's very important. And a church like this, a place like this is where you can get support. I would also suggest reading the book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. That's sort of a classic book for explaining any relationship, but particularly difficult relationships. Obviously true narcissism is the most difficult of all. But this is a really good book because boundaries—well, there are scriptural—Jesus had boundaries. God has boundaries. Lacey, your thoughts on this? You were about to say something I thought.

I was going toward the boundaries. All right. Absolutely. That's how we have healthy relationships. So if someone says something terribly hurtful to you, for example, you could speak to that by saying that is hurtful. And I would expect respect in our conversation. Otherwise, I will leave the conversation. So the boundary is explaining—it's to protect us. It's not an offensive weapon; it's to protect us. And yeah, Jesus is a great model for boundaries. He was living by priority. He—yeah. And the Boundaries book by Cloud and Townsend has a lot of scripture examples of that and how that can look.

René, can I answer that last part of the question? Because I really think it's key. If you can go back to that back slide just so I can read with that. That last question as I wanted to answer that because I felt like it was so applicable to. Yeah. What boundaries should be placed on somebody in the family who says terribly hurtful things? What do you say to this person as a reason for the limitation? And what do you say to yourself? Yeah, I wanted to answer what do you say to yourself. Because I feel like that's the first part of boundaries is what we believe about ourselves affects the boundaries that we set with other—or lack of boundaries that we set with others. So for example, in this question where it's obviously a family member that struggles with what they see as narcissism, if that—just say that adult child comes through the door and is making accusations that you're a bad mother and it's all your fault. And if you weren't mean to me, I wouldn't be this way.

What you believe about yourself as they're speaking definitely affects the boundaries that you'll set in that relationship. So you—in counseling, we would work on responding versus reacting. And obviously as I'm talking, I don't want to make it sound like these skills are simple. But that's one of the things that I really enjoy about therapy is helping teach people that. So you might respond with saying, like Lacey, your example is good. I feel like people need practical examples, you know, words to use. Yeah. So, you know, don't talk to me like that. I hear you and I'm not going to engage in the conversation or I'm not—

Say this often. I think what keeps people, especially Christians, in those kinds of abusive relationships is they really want to reach the person for the Lord. You know, like if I'm not in this relationship, they won't be saved. But that's where we go back to the comment you just made, Fred, and allow the Holy Spirit to be the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Yeah. And believe that God is working. You know, even if it's not you, you're not the savior. So a couple of quick questions. We have time for a lightning round for two more, I think. I'm open to counseling. He's not. Got a lot of these. We're in a relationship. We're in a marriage. We both agree we've got issues. I'm open. They're not. I'm open. He's not. I'm open. She's not to getting professional help. So lightning round, 60-second answer here.

OK. I would want to know why they're not open to outside support because they have reasons. And so if you can humble yourself, be calm, and engage dialogue, what are your concerns? Can we talk about what beliefs or assumptions may be coming up about therapy? Often we have no clue what it even is. We have, you know, media and stigma and all kinds of things like that that come to play. So I would want to understand what the reservations are and try to address them and clarify—get clarity on it. And then what was my second piece? Oh, do your own work. So you don't need your partner to agree to go to therapy in this example in order to improve the relationship. You do your own work. When you find yourself going, "Why won't they?" this, that, and the other, turn your attention back to yourself. You brush up on your skills, learn assertiveness, learn the boundaries, listen to the podcast, read the hundreds of books, and then you—by changing, that impacts your relationships. It's a systems issue. So when you get healthy, your relationships can become healthier.

Yeah. I would say if you're reluctant, I've gone to counseling. It's been super helpful. A ton of people I know have found it to be super helpful as well. It's not scary. It's awesome. I recommend it. And if you're in that situation, they want to—they don't want to, you want to, then you go and get counseling. That's good. Hey, listen, one more quick question for anybody who wants to answer this on the panel. How do you biblically call somebody out of sin without ruining the friendship? A lot of these—this person says, for example, when I've tried to bring up the issue, I'm met with anger and defensiveness. I mean this is a core question about Christian relationships because really it's about what we're called to do. It's about Christian discipleship. But it's difficult.

So Fred, I think first of all, real quickly, you've got to determine what is the relationship. If it is very, very close, you have a greater chance of challenging than if you're at a distance. Right? Do I have a right to speak into this? So that would be one aspect. Lacey, your thoughts? Or Christi? And I would just pray for the Holy Spirit's leading, you know, recognizing your own motive. And why am I going for this? Am I doing this to be right? Yeah. And you know, saying that this is what scripture says. So I'm not the authority. This is what the Bible says.

Yeah, that reframe is good because I think just full disclosure, a lot if not most of my peers have walked away from the church or faith. And I think it's because one of the reasons is they've been so hurt by the Christians. They're so hypocritical. They're so judgmental. And so I think what we can do naturally is say, well, I don't want to be that person. So I'm going to swing over here and say nothing when really it's—so this is part of how we love each other. So our motivation, what's my intention? It's always to restore, to restore the person back to well-being, back to God. So it's have I earned the right to speak into their life? When Jesus, you know, the disciples knew he loved them. He was so tender and he was also able to speak the truth to them in love. They knew he cared for them and that's how he was so good at that. He, as John says in John 1, personified grace and truth. How is a mystery. We will be unraveling the rest of our lives. But that's what we're to personify as well. Not just grace but truth, not just truth the grace. So important but so difficult.

Listen, thank you guys so much. This time flew by. Let's thank the whole panel. You did a wonderful job and thank you for submitting your questions. If your question was not answered, we're trying to figure out a way to respond through email or some other way to every single question we received because we want to pastor you and shepherd you and minister to you. But please be patient. We're going to try to not just leave you twisting in the wind and try to help you find a pastor to talk to or find a counselor for you or in some other way minister to you.

Well listen, as the band comes back on stage, I just want to speak a word of hope. You know, as a pastor, you hear pastors talk about relationships and relationships are tough. But you might wonder why do pastors seem to have hope? Why do they speak to me and try to encourage me about my relationships just because the Bible tells them to? No, I'll tell you why. Because we have seen—in my—this year, November 1st, it'll be my 30th year as a pastor here. I cannot count the number of times I've seen people come to me over the years who have estranged relationships with their children. Their kids just don't talk to them anymore and they're devastated and they've been praying for years and years and years and years and years. And then I see the relationship restored like Fred talked about with his dad.

I can't tell you how many people that I've seen as a pastor who are devastated from a divorce and they think they have no more life left, no more hope left. They'll never find love again. They're out of God's will for their lives. And I see them now and they're vitally involved in ministry and they've rediscovered their purpose and they've rediscovered the fact that they are loved by God and by others. How many times I've seen couples who are estranged because of a husband or a wife's infidelity or because of some other faith or trust being broken. And the couples think because of anger issue or because of an addiction issue our marriage will never be whole. If you could see little dots above the heads of couples in this room right now, that would probably be lit above 75 percent of the couples. And those are just the stories I know.

I've seen relationships restored so many times that I just don't know this because scripture tells me if that was all, I'd believe it because the scriptures are the inspired word of God. But I know it from my 30 years of experience as a pastor that even if you don't see it happening in that relationship, God is at work. He's at work in you and he's at work in them. And if you don't feel that love anymore, God is still at work in you and in them. And even if the ending is not the fairy tale ending that you hope for, God is still at work. And he's making you into the person that he wants you to be. So don't give up hope. God is going to make a way. God is working and God loves you. Amen.

Let's pray together. Heavenly Father, thank you so much for the hope that we have in you. And I pray that everybody who feels helpless in some relationship today would have absolute hope. And if they don't believe it, I just want to believe it for them this morning. That you are working, that you're working even if they don't see it and maybe even if they don't believe it. You're working and then you're working in the others in this relationship so that you can be glorified and so that we can grow into Christ-likeness. And God, thank you for that promise. Thank you for that hope. Thank you for the gospel. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.

Let's stand and let's sing a song about that. About the fact that no matter what you're feeling or seeing right now, God's at work. He's at work. He's at work in your life.